Monday, February 16, 2009

More Cymbalta Hell

Reader Advisory- The letter quoted in here was written in December, when I was not safe. I am safe now. Please do not read triggered by suicidal ideation

Gianna Kali has a post today on Cymbalta. And it addresses why people on Cymbalta want to kill themselves.

I understand why. For a time this past December, I too was experiencing suicidiation like I never experienced before. All from this drug.

The following below is an email I sent to a very good friend in real life in the throws of what I thought was madness and suicidal anguish like I have never experienced before. Please do not read if you are easily triggered.

December 17, 2008
Dear Uncle -

Mommy thinks she be going mad. She woke up after 2 hours sleep, once again covered in sweat, and crying and shaking. She said she hears voices, and goes to litter box.

She takes two Tylenol for her cramps, and a glass of milk. Makes it chocolate. Sits down in kitchen and lights a fag. (She just tells me now I cannot say that word it's bad word for kitties like me to use).

She says cigarette calms her and make voices go buh-bye. She is kind not to blow smoke up my little pink nose. She cries and puts cig down in dish and says when did i get so fucking old Holly?

I look at her quixotically and she just says, look at the white hair coming in.

I give her the same look, paw her and meow. She sighs, picks up cig and inhales deeply, tears streaming down her cheeks. She looks at me and says "Holly i wanna chop off my head".

I jump on her lap and give her the merrooooww that means pet me, stroke me behind the ears. She continues, putting cig down and stroking me. "Holly I am going to Home Depot tomorrow and making a guillotine so I can chop off my head".

"The voices are telling me to chop off my head, Holly. I just dreamed I was dead, the same way King Edward II died. Only they didn't shove it up my ass, they shoved it up my female parts".

Meooow. More purrs.

"It's just as well, Holly. I got a dried up Crone, I feel like I am an old woman, I don't have a flat stomach, my boobs aren't perky anymore, no one would want me I even have stretch marks and I never had a baby".

I roll over on my back, tummy up in the air so she can see my tummy not flat either. Both of us aren't 17.

She looks at me and says "I had a perfect hourglass figure until I was 25 and the meds really fucked me up".

I don't know what to say. I blink.

"Holly, I don't want to be here. i really think I am going mad. If I tell my mom and dad I am put in a home.I cannot get power of attny back, Holly just want to die, not by pills but head cut off, or pour gas and light. Something that will hurt like hell but will work. I cannot take this anymore. I just cannot work up the courage right now, so i am safe."

She cries some more, but no tears come out. Just snot rockets, which she wipes on her sleeve like a child. This isn't like mommy. She would never do such an etiquette faux pax. She lights another cig and her hands shake. She cannot get the match to light, she goes through five or six before she has success. It lights and she takes a long drag. I let her shut her eyes and think.

Holly, I don't want to go mad. She finishes her milk, and just stares into space while the cigarette burns by her. I know she has been struggling with burning thoughts the last few weeks, and has been successful in fighting them. Now is hard. She will get better because she does not want to go mad, she does not want to go on Clozeril.

She talks looking at the window, not to me, but to something I cannot see. My predecessor's ghost maybe?

When I was sick earlier this year in Princeton hospital with pneumonia, they thought I might die-and one night when my parents were leaving my bedside, I was half conscious doped up on pain meds, my mom leaned over, adjusted the blanket, and kissed my cheek. My father kissed my cheek. My mother put a stuffed animal that was in the window in bed with me. For one brief second I felt warm and safe, like I was a little girl, and my parents would tuck me in and kiss me good night and kiss my dolly good night too.

I want to feel warm and safe and secure like that again.

She extinguishes the cigarette, goes into the bathroom, her hands shaking as she tries to brush her teeth, and washes her face. Brushes her hair and puts it back up in a pony tail. I rub by her feet, her ankles.

"I feel better now Holly. The cigarettes helped the voices, and I feel better now I washed my face. I am safe little one." She picks me up, rubs her face in my fur, scritches me behind the ears, on my back, on my head.
Carries me to the bed, plops me down on it and goes into it, after moving the pillows around. Good night my sweet baby. she says.

I hope she can sleep a bit now and no more bad dreams and voices. I wanna dream of birdies and baby mice and warm beds and fireplaces. Good cat stuff.

We love you and mom wants you, if you see this, to keep it so one day if you ever get your book written, and mom has gone mad you have something written by someone in the throws of madness.


Marissa Miller said...

I'm glad you're better, Susan. Holly needs her mommy!

<3 Marissa

Gianna said...

you don't sound so mad to you said you were under the influence of a substance making you sick.

You are not crazy.

I'm glad you're feeling better too.

Ana said...

I'm glad you're safe.
I was a little concerned about you in December.

Stephany said...

Bright side is you aren't feeling that bad now, right? and not in the hospital feeling sick--we both had awful pneumonia last year, thank goodness that's over!

susan said...

@Marissa, Yes, Holly does. Or I think she does. She does not have opposable thumbs so someone has to open the cans of food- and change the litter box!

@Gianna, Thank you. I am glad I am feeling better too, as is Holly. She would rather be doing cat things than baby sit.

@Ana, thank you. I worry about you too.

@Stephany, I forgot you had pneumonia also! I am glad we are both feeling better. Scritches for Sammy- and of course Koda.

Ana said...

Don't worry about me Susan.
I forgot to say that I liked your new avatar.

herrad said...

What a post what an honest and moving account.
Glad to read you are feeling better.
Take care.

susan said...

@Herrad, thank you for popping by and commenting. I am flattered.

srk said...

Something that almost everyone does if they have problems related to anxiety and panic is to try to uncover their own panic attacks causes. And it's understandable. Panic attacks are truly horrific, and definitely the worst part about having any form of anxiety or panic disorder.

Anonymous said...

Pharmacologically Enhanced Psychotropic Pharmaceuticals

In the 1930s, physicians approached the mental illness of depression a bit differently that we do today. While acknowledging typically the etiology for their patients is likely due to some great misfortune in their individual lives, the physician focused on what was known as a complex.
A complex is the disturbances of ideas and impulses that are the cause of consistent habitual patterns of thought, feelings, and behavior.
An example of this state of mind of one who is depressed is one who experiences an exaggerated or obsessive concern or fear. And the etiology for this mental disorder was often undefined. People react differently to life stressors in their life, so depression cannot be empirically determined.
Also in the 1930s, at times, behavioral or cognitive therapy was recommended for treating the depressed patient, and not pharmacological treatment, overall. Also considered for the depressed patient was positive lifestyle changes that may lessen the pain that the depression was causing them.
Try and be grateful, they would tell their patient, as well as thankful and appreciative for whatever good may be in their life, and normally the depressed patient would eventually recover.
Times have changed since then.
Presently, serotonin-enhancing drugs are the therapeutic regimens for those who are suspect of having a depressed state or mood disorder. Patients believing they have such cognitive issues often ask for such medications. The drugs are known as SSRIs, or SRNIs.
What is remarkable is that the mood disorders which will be discussed are subject to debate that progresses in its intensity as the more of these certain types of drugs are used in others
Such disorders, presuming they exist at all, have been brought to the attention to so many others through disease awareness campaigns by the makers of these classes of drugs. So mental flaws claimed to be relieved by SSRI drugs may not be entirely accurate. Disease mongering takes many forms- including front groups wearing a mask.
With depression, the most severe cognitive and behavioral malfunctions are expressed in what is called a major depressive disorder, as well as clinical depression or major depression. Depression is thought to affect twice as many women than men.
Symptoms of this type of depression, which is the most concerning to health care providers in particular due to its severity, include decreased or flat affect, decreased interest in activities once enjoyable, self perceptions of worthiness, guilt, regret, helplessness, and hopeless by the sufferer, to name a few of the diagnostic features that may be present with one who has such a major depressive disorder.
The disease has a vexing insistence on staying with the victim for a lengthy period of time- often continuing to progress symptomatically in severity and discomfort. This disease is very disabling, and cannot be lifted by one’s will, so all health care professionals likely agree that depression is a potentially serious condition with their patients. Suicidal ideation and attempts are associated with major depression. Treatment, it appears, is reasonable and necessary for the depressed patient.
These SSRI drugs mentioned earlier are known by some health care providers as third generation anti-depressants. Such drugs, drugs that affect the mind, are called psychotropic medications.
SSRIs also include a few drugs in this class that include the addition of a norepinephrine uptake inhibitor added to the SSRI in one capsule, and these drugs are referred to as SNRI medications. The combination of two different drugs has made them the top class of prescriptions for those suspected of psychological misalignment.
There are several available SSRIs presently, and a few SRNIs. Both classes of medications are prescribed for similar mental conditions.
Some consider these classes of meds, the serotonin enhancers in these medications, to be the next generation mood enhancers- after the benzodiazepine hype decades ago, which was followed by what were called trycyclic drugs for depression for some time as well, it is believed.
Furthermore, regarding SNRIs, adding the additional agent of norepinepherine is presumed to increase the effectiveness of SSRIs by some, yet not everyone claims relief from these types of drugs included in the SRNI class.
Some Definitions:
Serotonin is a neurotransmitter thought to be associated with mood. The hypothesis was first suggested in the mid 1960s that this neurotransmitter may play a role in moods and emotions in humans. Yet to this day, the serotonin correlation with such behavioral and mental conditions is only theoretical.
In fact, the psychiatrist’s bible, which is known as the DSM, states that the definite etiology of depression remains a mystery and remains unknown with complete certainty. So a chemical imbalance in the brain is not proven to be the cause of mood disorders, it is only suspected as a result of limited scientific evidence.
Diagnosing mental diseases such as depression is based on subjective assessment only, as interpreted by the prescriber, so one can examine the accuracy of such diagnoses.
Norepinepherine is a stress hormone, which many believe help those who have such mood disorders as depression. Basically, with the theory that by adding this hormone, the SSRI will be more efficacious for a patient prescribed such a med, as suggested earlier.
And the depressive state of a patient certainly can be aggravated by another mood disorder at the same time with some patients. Anxiety usually exists with one who has a major depressive disorder. An objective diagnosis of such a mental condition is rather impossible to assess objectively. Therefore any diagnosis made for a mental abnormality lacks complete accuracy and assurance.
So such speculated mental illnesses can only be assessed conceptually. As a result, the diagnosis or impression concluded by the patient’s health care provider is dependent on subjective criteria expressed by the suspected patient that is presumed to be not mentally sound.
At times, there have been screening programs that have been used for identifying depressed patients have proven to be largely ineffective.
A social patient history is uncertain and tricky as well, some have said, yet is obtained often from such patients. There is no objective diagnostic testing for any mental malfunction to validate as to whether or not such a disease is present- just the perception of the health care provider, and survey questions related to a particular mental disorder.
A health care provider has to assess as to whether certain non-verbal or vocalized features are present with a patient in order to conclude confidently that one may have in fact some degree or level of depression or any other mental disorder.
To assess a suspected depressed patient is further complicated by the fact that the exact cause of major depression is unknown. Research says that there is a strong genetic component to this illness, however.
The diagnosis of depression as well as mood disorders that may exist within patients has increased quite a bit over the past few decades. Some have asked themselves, as well as others- actually how many people are really and actually depressed, or affected by any other mental disorder?
What is believed is that if one determined to be cognitively impaired from a mental paradigm, then this may be in fact major depression. If this mental disorder is determined by a health care provider, it is possible that pharmacological therapy may be considered reasonable and necessary, as well as psychotherapy either suggested to be performed with or in place of medicinal therapy.
Studies show that both therapies working together may be of most benefit for the depressive patient, yet it is not a guaranteed protocol for treatment in this way.
It has been reported that around 10 percent of the U.S. population will at some point be affected by an episode of what may be a major depressive disorder. This is much greater in number than just a few decades ago.
Perhaps media sources are to blame to some degree for the progressive increase in diagnosing mental disorders by suggesting to the public that they may have such disorders. So the diagnosis and medicinal treatment have clearly increased in a relatively short period of time in the United States.
Of course, the expansion of those claimed and determined to be depressed does not sadden the makers of these drugs used to treat this mental disorder one bit, it is safe to say.
Some have said that so many more people seek treatment now for what they believe is a major depressive disorder they are experiencing, when in fact it may be possibly intense sadness, perhaps, due to a loss of some sort in their lives. There is a difference, and health care providers should have the appropriate tools and knowledge to discriminate between the two states of mental conditions.
Sadness is not a medical problem. Symptoms associated with an unfavorable mental state need to be excessive and chronic to be considered to have in fact the medical problem of a major depressive disorder, as stated by others.
In Time magazine’s June 16th 2008 cover story, it was reported that the military personnel in the Iraq war are pounding down SSRIs often. Every time there is a new war, there is a new drug, it seems. Yet the story may illustrate the frequent usage of these types of medications in a variety of different areas for different reasons.
Some reasons may be valid and appropriate, yet others perhaps may not be reasonable for such medicinal therapy. However, as illustrated in this situation, they appear to be accepted as a treatment option without reservation.
In regards to those pharmaceutical companies who make and market such psychotropic drugs in the manner that their manufacturers do is largely unknown to others, such as with screenings performed essentially by front groups, and so forth.
However, what is known is that the psychiatry specialty, as they often treats and manages depressed patients, is the one specialty that receives the most monetary funding that is paid to them by these certain pharmaceutical companies for ultimately what they hope will be continued and additional support of the psychotropic meds that they currently promote to these doctors.
Needless to say, the desire and the aspect of the pharmaceutical industry clearly is primarily concerned with encouraging as much use out of their products as possible- with both doctors and patients being the route of that increased use they desperately hope will occur.
Regardless, SSRIs and SRNIs are the preferred treatment methods if depression or other mood disorders that are suspected and determined by the health care providers who treat such patients. Yet these drugs discussed clearly are not the only treatments, medicinally or otherwise, for depression and other related and suspected mental disease states, moods, or disorders.
Patients should be aware of this fact as well as caregivers. And they may not be aware of the options available to them.
For example, tens of millions of prescriptions are written by health care providers for these types of medications for their patients.
These drugs are not inexpensive, either, as it is not unusual for a patient to pay greater than one hundred dollars to have their prescription filled for only a month’s worth of these particular drugs.

Presently, there are about ten different SSRI/SRNI meds available, many of which are now generic, yet essentially, they appear to be similar in regards to their efficacy and adverse events.
The newest one, a SNRI called Pristiq, was approved in 2008, and is believed to be launched as a treatment for menopause.
The first one of these SSRI meds was Prozac, which was available in 1988, and the drug was greatly praised for its ability to transform the lives of those who consumed this medication in the years that followed. Some termed Prozac, ‘the happy pill’.
In addition, as the years went by and more drugs in this class became available, Prozac was the one of preference for many doctors for children. A favorable book was published specifically regarding this medication soon after it became so popular with others.
Furthermore, these meds have received upon request of their makers to the FDA to have additional indications besides depression for these types of drugs they produce and market, and the indications they have received are for some really questionable conditions, such as social phobia and premenstrual syndrome.
Also included with indications that now exist with these types of medications are the quite devastating conditions of what may be mild anxiety and shyness, yet the makers of these drugs consider such patients as having chronic anxiety with severe anxiety disorder, which others have said is rather obsurd.
And it gets worse with the indications received for these types of drugs, which now include Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder, Panic Disorder, Agoraphobia, Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, Bulimia, and any form of stress disorders in general. I understand they are seeking indications for pain management as well with these SSRI or SRNI pharmaceuticals.
Likely, they will get the indication for their drugs to treat such creative cognitive states apparently others have in great numbers.
With some of these indications for these classes of drugs, I question as to whether or not they are actual and treatable disease states or medical problems. Yet with additional indications for particular drugs in these classes of medications, one can be assured that the market for these drugs will continue to grow- as more are prescribed to those patients who are progressively asking for them specifically for relief they anticipate they will receive from taking these drugs.
What such patients are not aware of is that studies have shown that this class of medications is only effective in roughly half of those who take them. And some of the indications granted to drugs in these classes of medications may be considered disease mongering tacitly performed by the makers and marketers of these drugs to again grow the market share for particular drugs of this type.
This is combined with drug companies who make these types of meds either forming or creating front groups in order to have more diagnosed with various medical problems that may not exist so their medication can be utilized more.
And as mentioned earlier, such pharmaceutical companies have been known to either create or support front groups to ultimately encourage who may be normal people to get evaluated for the diseases indicated with these medications. Of course, such tactics implemented by such pharmaceutical companies are deceptive, inappropriate, unreasonable, unnecessary, and potentially if not actually dangerous to others.
Perhaps of greater concern and danger with these particular psychotropic medications involve the adverse effects associated with these types of drugs, which include suicidal thoughts and actions, violence- including acts of homicide, and aggression- and this is only to name a few. Such events are devastating and have been demonstrated by those who have or are taking these types of drugs.
It has been reported that the makers of such drugs are suspected to have known about these toxic and dangerous effects of their drugs and did not share them with the public in a timely and critical manner until forced to do so.
While most SSRIs and SNRIs are approved for use in adults only, prescribing these meds to children and adolescents has drawn the most attention and debate with others for understandable reasons, which have included those in the medical profession as well as citizen watchdog groups.
The reasons for this attention are due to the potential off-label use of these meds in this population of children, yet what may be most shocking is the fact that some of the makers of these meds did not release clinical study information about the risks of suicide as well as the other adverse events related to such populations, combined with the true decreased efficacy of SSRIs in general, which is believed to be only less than 10 percent more effective than a placebo.
The makers of Paxil caught the attention of the government regarding this issue of data suppression some time ago, this hiding of such important information- Elliot Spitzer specifically was the catalyst for this awareness, as I recall.
Furthermore, that drug is in the spotlight once again years later. Some believe the drug maker knew about possible risk to the youth as early as 1991. Yet did not disclose such danger associated with their drug to the public or the FDA, and this was done with intent.
And there are very serious questions about the use of SSRIs in children and adolescents regarding the possible damaging effects of these meds on them as they get older- these children and teenagers who are prescribed these drugs. Others are asking if this is really necessary- and are these drugs doing more harm than good for their children.
For example, do the SSRIs correct or create brain states considered not within normal limits, which in effect would possibly cause harm rather than benefit a patient on such a drug? Are adolescents really depressed, or just experiencing what was once considered normal teenage angst?

Do SSRIs have an effect on the brain development and their self identity of such young people? Do adolescents in particular become dangerous or bizarre due to SSRIs interfering with the myelination occurring within their still developing brains?
No one seems to know the correct answer to such questions, yet the danger associated with the use of SSRIs does in fact exist, as demonstrated by others. It is observed in some who take such drugs, but not all who take these drugs.
Yet health care providers possibly should be much more aware of these possibilities, possibly, along with the black box warning now on SSRI prescribing information for the youth that has existed since 1994. There are other medications health care providers could prescribe for such patients that have no less benefit for them then the serotonin drugs discussed.
Finally, if SSRIs or SNRIs are discontinued by a patient rapidly, abruptly, and without medical supervision, withdrawals experienced by many of these patients are believed to be quite brutal that follow soon after this drug is not taken anymore by a former patient. This in itself may be a catalyst for one to consider or attempt suicide, others have suggested.
Many are aware and understand that discontinuing these SSRIs and SSNIs leaves the brain in a state of neurochemical instability for some great length of time as the neurons need to recalibrate after existing in a brain over-saturated with serotonin and neuron alteration.
This occurs to some degree with any psychotropic medication, yet the withdrawals can reach a state of danger for the victim in some classes of meds such as SSRIs and SNRIs, it is believed. And this seems to concern many, yet does not inhibit health care providers for continuing to select such therapy with these drugs for their patients.
SSRIs and SRNIs have been claimed by doctors as well as patients to be extremely beneficial for the patient’s well -being regarding their apparent mental issues that resolve in time. Yet overall, the factors associated with this class of medications may outweigh any perceived benefit for the patient taking such a drug that can harm themselves and others.
Before these medications mentioned were developed, doctors praised trycyclics, another class of anti-depressants mentioned earlier, in a similar manner since their advent in the 1950.
Considering the lack of efficacy that has been demonstrated objectively with these new serotonin specific psychotropics, along with the deadly adverse events with these SSRI and SSNI meds only recently brought to the attention of others, other pharmacological and non- pharmacological treatment options should probably be considered, but that is up to the discretion of the prescriber.
And the perception of the benefits derived by these types of drugs may be flawed, as there has been no decrease in incidences of suicide or remission of depression since these drugs have been available, many have concluded.

Yet antidepressants in general have been considered by others to create amotivational syndrome, which is a lack of interest in various activities, as well as creating a state of flat affect of users of antidepressants.
Furthermore, recent studies have suggested that the supplement, St. John’s Wart, has shown to be as effective as medicine for major depression. Deficiencies in vitamins B12 and Folate have been suggested as a cause for depression as well. One study showed that a small jog performed by a depressed patient offered similar if not greater relief than a SSRI drug.
It is my hope that such a prescriber rules out possible other etiologies for their patients’ mental conditions before they conclude that such a patient is suffering from true mental illness requiring the medications mentioned earlier, such as asking their patients about life stressors and other medications these patients have taken or are presently taking. Because at times, a doctor can in fact do harm without intent.
“I use to care, but now I take a pill for that.” ---
Author unknown*
Dan Abshear

Herrad said...

Take care.

Herrad said...

Came by to say hello hope you are doing well.

Take care.



seller said...

very good

susan said...

Thank you Seller.

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